Most people have experienced an issue with screen to print match at one time or another. Some have told me that they have just given up on the idea. But screen to print match can save you a lot of editing time, and wasted paper making proofs (you know: proof-tweak, proof-tweak, etc.) This is an issue that can usually be solved without breaking a sweat. Think of this article like a cooking recipe – put it all together, and cookies turn out fine! Examples of Issues 1. It is hard to see the screen in my office or studio 2. Colors I’m familiar with don’t look right on the screen 3. Screen brightness does not match print/print looks too dark 4. Screen shows highlights and/or shadows differently than the print 5. Some colors differ on screen vs print 6. All the color in the print just looks wrong, compared to the screen Discussion 1. It is hard to see the screen This is a big cause of headaches and fatigue. I suggest that if you need glasses or an updated prescription, get them. Bright light in the room, whether ceiling lights, windows, or other sources, can cause reflections on the screen or cause you struggle with differences in brightness. I use a room that has a big window with a set of louvered blinds. Not expensive, and effective. If you are using a laptop, you should know that most laptop screens are just not good enough for editing color in digital photographs. The color palette is too narrow. Also, the screen has a small sweet spot, or angle of view – if you move around a bit the appearance of color and/or contrast may change. If your budget permits, get a decent flat screen display and plug it into the laptop. Another issue – your room setup is important. The screen should be the brightest light source in the room. Competing light from windows and such can affect your perception of color, and cause eyestrain and fatigue. Here’s a photo of a room that does NOT get the job done! 2. Colors I’m familiar with don’t look right on the screen First, you usually get what you pay for. A bottom-dollar low end screen probably can’t get the job done. Next, the screen has to be calibrated – this means adjusting the screen so it shows color accurately as possible. The tool used for this is a display calibrator. (I discourage use of the display calibration software included with Mac OS or Windows OS. They improve things, but not enough for editing photographs). Display calibration is one of the easier things to do. Open the box, follow the directions, and voila! I have some recommendations for settings. Some may disagree here, but these work for me. You will see the adjustment screen for these if you choose the “advanced” option in your calibration software. Use color temp of 5500k, or 6500k, depending partly on which color space you use. Adobe 98 white point is 6500, ProPhoto RGB is 5500. Use luminance of 90-120 cd/square meter to start. Use gamma of 2.2. When you set up your display like this, it will look kind of dull compared to its previous state. By the way, most new displays come new out of the box set up to much higher color temperatures, close to 200cd/sqm, gamma native or 2.2. That’s useful in an office where one is working on email or similar stuff; near useless for photography. You can, of course, experiment until you find a set of adjustments that suit you. These have worked for me for a long time. One last thing: capture RAW whenever practical, and work with your images in Adobe 98, or ProPhoto RGB, rather than sRGB. The only reason to keep an sRGB workflow is if you are a wedding or event photographer and your lab requires it. 3. Screen brightness does not match print The screen will always look brighter than the print. Put another way: “the print looks too dark!” Think of the screen like a lightbox with a big transparency on it – it gives off light. The print can only reflect light. The answer comes in three parts: Control your room lighting, use the screen brightness settings provided above, and control the light used to view the print (view the print in indirect daylight, gallery halogens, or a dedicated light box). 4. Screen shows highlights and/or shadows differently than the print Two of the biggest reasons in the matching screen-vs-print category for this are 1) a cheapo screen, and 2) a non-calibrated display. Other causes usually involve editing techniques used in Photoshop or another editor, when preparing to print, or in settings used in the printing software dialogue box. That’s a subject for another article. 5. Some colors differ on screen vs print First, think about display calibration. Got to do it – at least once a month. Next, think about setting up Photoshop so you can actually see what the printed image’s colors will look like. This kind of preview is called “Soft Proofing”. Here’s an excerpt from an article I wrote on the subject: You can set Photoshop to display a simulation of how your your print will actually look, using the paper/ink/printer combination you’ve chosen. This is often called
“soft proofing”. The benefits? You can see, in real time, what color impact your editing will produce – in other words, each time you adjust color you’ll see what it is going to look like in the final print. You can also choose different soft proofing setups to see the impact of changing papers, or even changing printers! With your image open, click View>Proof Setup>Custom, as shown below: Note that just below the tag “Proof Conditions” there is a title “Device to Simulate”. This designates a drop down menu that looks like the screen shot shown below. You will see a list of the ICC profiles that you’ve installed, either along with a printer driver, or manually. Scroll down and choose the one you want. Once you have chosen the correct profile, you can save this as a pre-set for your convenience. Click on Save, and name your pre-set, and click save again. Click OK to close this out. For most photography purposes, Perceptual rendering intent is fine. Enable black point compensation, and leave the others alone – don’t need them. As long as “Preview” is enabled, your calibrated display will show you what your image is going to look like in print! 6. All the color in the print just looks wrong, compared to the screen The biggest reason this happens to me is that, somehow, the display calibration goes haywire. This usually happens after a system crash. The first thing to do is to check the printer – is the right paper loaded? Are you using the right printer settings? Have you performed a print head check for clogged nozzles? If the problem continues, reboot the computer and recalibrate the display. Sometimes settings files go haywire, or get corrupted. If the display is over three or four years old, and the problem persists, try another monitor on the computer and see if that solves the issue. You may need a new display. 7. SPECIAL NOTE: This post is Photoshop-centric, and the screen shots are from CS5. However, soft proofing in CS6 is identical, as far as I can tell (I’ve had CS6 for a day and a half!). In the next week or two, I will make another post that describes soft proofing in Lightroom 4. Additional tips and tricks: Remember that you can always change your display calibration back to the way it was, or re-calibrate using different settings. Color editing that seems impossible late at night will usually be easy after a good night’s sleep. Use manufacturer’s ink, not a substitute, in your printer. Experiment with different papers, but often the manufacturer’s paper will look the best. If you have trouble with color on a print, try making a print from an image that has done well before. If that also looks different, it is the printer or the printing settings. Change the background on your Photoshop screen to grey or white. Let the screen warm up for 30 minutes before you start work. When you are printing, try using ICC profiles for printing instead of printer managed color. === NEW WORKSHOP: Join us in the Palouse in June 2012 for a combo photography/image editing extravaganza! Go to the top of this page and click on the WORKSHOPS tab!
The next dialogue box that appears will look like this:


Category Archives: Workflow
Visualization: ‘Seeing’ Photographs at the Start of Your Creative Workflow
by David Saffir
Most photographs are created twice: once in your imagination, and a second time during your creative workflow. Creating a photograph in your mind’s eye before you set up the shot or process the image is referred to as visualization. The idea of visualization in photography is not new. Masters of photography such as Alfred Steiglitz and Ansel Adams spoke of visualization quite eloquently. Visualization can be an important part of fully expressing your intent in your photographs…..
read more (published Pro Photo blog)
Review: Mamiya DF Camera and Mamiya DM56 Digital Back
Not too long ago I wrote a review of the Mamyia AFDIII and the Leaf 22MP back. At the time, I felt it was an excellent camera, and I still do.
In this report, I’ll cover my recent experience with another Mamiya camera and digital back: the Mamiya DF body, and the Mamiya DM56 digital back. Since space is limited on the blog, I’ll hit the high points as I see them.
Bottom line: a greatly improved, highly flexible camera body that, coupled with this digital back, delivers superb image quality. I have a few nitpicking suggestions, but overall this camera is impressive.
Dan Cuny, of Mamiya/Mac Group, came to the SCV Center for Photography in Santa Clarita and provided camera gear for us to use. We started the day with a live demo for a number of photographers from the local area, shooting still life.
The camera feels robust and well made. The viewfinder is big and bright, and the in-viewfinder indicators are easily read. We used two lenses: the 80mm f/2.8 lens supplied with the camera, and a manual-focus 120mm macro lens. The camera is very well balanced with either lens mounted. I’ve found that I can work all day without suffering undue fatigue.
The camera can be used with focal-plane, or leaf shutter lenses. Highest sync speeds are reported up to 1/1600. The DF camera body is compatible with existing 645AFD lenses.
The camera was equipped with a Mamiya DM56 digital back. This back provides excellent resolution, 12 stops of dynamic range, and true 16-bit capture. Color rendered by this back is terrific – vibrant, very accurate, and totally clean.
The large, bright screen on the back makes it easy to view images and manage the controls – although performance in direct sunlight could still be improved.
Autofocus feels appreciably faster than previous camera bodies, and reports from others who have tried this camera confirm this.
We set up a Calumet shooting table, and several monolights. We started out with high-key lighting, but switched later on to a more dramatic approach. The shooting table is ideal for this work, providing a smooth, clean translucent plexi surface that allows totally flexible light placement.
We shot with the camera tethered to a Mac Book Pro, using the provided 14-foot long Firewire 800 cable. Leaf Capture 11.3 was used to manage capture and image processing.
The Indian bowl we photographed (a personal possession of mine) was initially shot using high-key lighting, with the camera mounted on a tripod. We used a Sekonic hand-held meter to measure exposure, and a PocketWizard Plus to trigger lighting from the camera.
Note the clean contrast lines in the bowl:
And here’s a version with more directional lighting:
Note how clean the shadows are; virtually no luminance or color noise. We were using ISO 100, one step (albeit a relatively small one) above base ISO of 80.
I was quite surprised by this; conventional wisdom concerning high pixel density is that shadow noise will be significant – but not in this case. I used virtually no noise reduction in the images shown in this article – although I can’t say for sure that there isn’t some processing going on in the guts of the digital back. Regardless, performance exceeded expectations.
We also shot a still life of some sea shells. Note the rendering of subtle colors, and in the second image, the sharpness and detail. Impressive.
Later in the testing, I had the opportunity to photograph a model in a studio setting. I often use low-key, dramatic lighting in my personal work. The lighting setup was created by a friend, Ron Brewer – I tweaked it a bit, and this is the result:
The highlight/shadow transitions are clean, and free of noise. Also note the high level of detail around the eye (below). These images are not retouched, other than a basic levels/curves adjustment.
The nitpicks? The thing that bugs me the most is the location of the Auto exposure lock button – it is placed toward the outer side of the camera grip – and I found myself having to adjust my hold on the camera to reach it.
The digital back viewscreen, like just about every one out there, is very difficult to see in bright light outdoors, much less direct sun. It is, however, great in other circumstances. Don’t know if this is a solvable problem; at least Hasselblad provides an LCD view of the histogram on top of the camera grip.
And last, battery life, as with all MF digital cameras I’ve used, is less than I’d like. I realize the battery has to power the guts of the back, and the preview screen, but I’m still blasting through several batteries a day outdoors. If Nikon and Canon can make batteries that go a full day, why can’t the MF manufacturers?
Last but not least:
Say what you will about performance of high-end DSLRs, there’s still a noticeable difference between 14-bit capture and medium format 16-bit capture, in color fidelity and accuracy – and as good as DSLR lenses are now, it’s still true that MF lenses are hard to beat.
The flexibility of the camera is very good – given the sync speed, choice of shutters/lenses, software (Phase One or Leaf), and ergonomics. Whether you shoot weddings, studio, fashion, or landscapes, it’s worth a look. I haven’t shown them in this article, but the images I took on location are just as good as those provided here. (by the way, outside temps were over 100F one day!)
And a parting thought: this latest Mamiya incarnation has a new feeling of sophistication and polish that comes through
every time I pick it up. It’s a shooter’s camera.
Link to New Workshops – June 2012 Photo Workshop in the Palouse!
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Disclosure: I did not receive any compensation from Mamiya or Mac group in exchange for writing this article.
Central Coast, California: We’re off to Pismo, Morro Bay, and more
Santa Fe Workshops: Fine Art Digital Printmaking, Feb 28 to Mar 6, 2010
February 28 – March 6, 2010, Santa Fe, NM
FOLLOW THIS LINK FOR MORE DETAILS AND REGISTRATION
Our third year! Make your photographic vision come to life in this Advanced Photography Experience/Digital Lab workshop.
Join two accomplished photographers and fine art printmakers, Jack Duganne and David Saffir for this exciting, hands-on journey from a photo shoot on-location in the Santa Fe area, through high-intensity classroom sessions in image processing and editing, all the way to printing your new color or black and white images on brand-new state-of-the-art HP pigment-based inkjet printers.
We will spend most of our time in the digital lab, and travel out for a photo shoot or two during the week.
Topics will include, but are not limited to selecting vantage points and times of day for shooting, options in image composition, use of on-camera controls to enhance image quality, choice of digital file formats, importing and evaluating your images, processing images to maximize quality and artistic impact, and creating exhibition-quality color and black and white prints. We will wind up our week with an image critique and discussion of preparing for success in print competition.
On the last day, we have a festive evening reception and dinner – AND prints from the class will be shown on exhibition.
This is a work-group style class, with frequent one-on-one work. This limits the workshop to a dozen or so participants, so enroll early and reserve your spot.
Prospective students are requested to bring an open mind and their film or digital camera for a week of exploration and learning. Use of a camera tripod is strongly recommended. Film processing and scanning will be available. Applicants should have a working knowledge of Photoshop. Bring a portfolio box too, because you’ll want to take these images home.
About the Instructors
David Saffir is an internationally-recognized, award-winning photographer, author, and printmaker. He has taught in many venues, including the West Coast School Super Sunday, WPPI, Clear Focus Studios, the Hasselblad PowerPro Tour, HP Dreamcolor Seminars, and the Arles Photo Festival in France (Recontres d’ Arles).
He is also the author of Mastering Digital Color”, published by Thomson Course Technology. He is one of the principals of the Artists’ Showcase of Santa Clarita, and past president of the Santa Clarita Valley Photographers Association. He has written numerous articles for Great Output, Rangefinder, AfterCapture, Professional Photographer, Digital Imaging Tech, and others. http://www.davidsaffir.com
Jack Duganne is an internationally-recognized photographer and a world-renowned fine art printmaker. He is one of the founders of Nash Editions, and now heads Duganne Atelier in Santa Monica, California. He has taught advanced classes throughout the US, and in Europe. His web site is http://www.duganne.com.
Join us in Santa Fe for a week of photographic creativity and camaraderie!
Best regards,
David and Jack :)
Link to Santa Fe Workshops Registration
or telephone: (505) 983-1400 ext 11
Upcoming Seminar: Fotoweek, Nov 9, 2009, Taking Your Photography and Business To The Next Level
Tools of the Trade: Taking your Photography & Business to the Next Level, Sponsored by HP and MEI Computer
Monday, November 9th at VisArts (Rockville Town Center) 155 Gibbs Street, Suite 300, Rockville, MD 20850
9:00-10:30 – Studio Planning & Set-up, Physical Environment and Ergonomics, Lighting, Display/Monitor Selection.Discover the latest software and hardware the pros use to manage workflow and achieve consistent results.
10:30-12:00 – Getting the Most Out of Your Inkjet Printer. Camera to printer workflow: selecting a printer, accurate color previews, printing from image editing software.Media selection. Printer troubleshooting, print correction, archiving.
12:00-1:00 – Lunch With featured printing demonstrations.
1:00-2:30 – Fine Art Printmaking plus Fine Art Reproduction. Create Fine Art and Decor Prints for other photographers and galleries. Learn price points, media types, how to work with galleries and organizations.Fine Art Reproduction, tools for Fine Art Reproduction
2:30-3:30 – Succeeding in Print Competition Avenues for Success: Choosing a competition, understanding print comp terms and conditions, Selecting images, printing, what the judges want to see, and more.
3:45pm-4:30PM Fine Art Media for Limited Editions. Matching Media and Client Needs, Media Types for Social Photography Commercial/Fine Art/Other Purposes
4:30-Finish: Q&A & Printing. Participants are encouraged to bring a high resolution digital file to print.
For more information and registration please visit MEI Computer’s web sign up page.
New Blog Announcement: Focus 09 – Digital Fine Art Printing and Art Reproduction Seminars
New Blog Announcement
Focus 09: Digital Fine Art Printing and Art Reproduction Seminars
Focus 09: Digital Fine Art Printing and Art Reproduction Seminars
Instructor: David Saffir
In October 2009, we begin a new tour and seminar series: Fine Art Printing and Photographic Reproduction. This series provides an in-depth review of the subject from several viewpoints: first, for photographers wishing to make fine art prints, and second, for curators, galleries, and other organiztions in dealing with artists and their work in the context of creating open- and limited reproduction editions of their artwork. Third, for artists who wish to expand their marketing efforts and created editions of their work for exhibition and sale.
Beginning October 2, 2009, and continuing through October 20th, the Tour covers seven cities in three states (Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico).
Designed for photographers, artists, galleries, printmakers, students, and organizations this series provides a number of learning experiences: read more.
Fall Into New England – A Photographers’ Seminar (reminder)
Fall Into New England – A Photographers’ Seminar Friday Oct 9- Saturday Oct 17 Instructor: April Bielefeldt
April Bielefeldt is a nationally-recognized, award winning photographer. She has lived in several areas of the country, but New England continues to be her favorite photographic destination. She has led photography sessions in Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire in the past five years with great success. She has a degree in Fine Art and Design, and has curated both art and photography exhibitions.
Read on – this is an opportunity you shouldn’t miss!
Manage and Archive Photos using Lightroom On-Disk Organization – Part Three
by guest author Robert Ash
Introduction
Our first installment discussed an on-disk organization method that allows you to organize your photos in a way you can use any program you choose to find and view them easily. Our second installment discussed importing your photos into Adobe ® Lightroom®.
In this article we will discuss using Lightroom to manage your on-disk organization, plus show you a folder naming practice that makes it possible to use in a clever way a powerful Lightroom 2 feature – Smart Collections.
Overview
Key principles for organizing photos in Lightroom are:
- First organize on-disk (Installment 1). Again, this will make your file organization largely if not completely independent of what file browsing or organization software you use – Lightroom, Bridge, your camera manufacturer’s or another program like Aperture or CaptureOne. It will also drastically reduce the number of keywords you need, and may even eliminate your need for keywords.
- Import into Lightroom (Installment 2). Use Lightroom to transfer your photos from card to temporary folders on disk, where they’re faster to work with. Import those temporary folders into Lightroom (Installment 2).
- Organize your folders in Lightroom (this Installment). Use Lightroom to move photos from your temporary folders to their final destinations.
- Then create Collections. Lightroom Collections enable you to store a single photo or group of photos in multiple classification categories simultaneously, using on-disk organization alone cannot do this efficiently.
- Finally, do keywording if needed.
Summary
To organize your folders and imported photos using Lightroom:
Go into Lightroom’s Folders Panel
Import photos from memory card into temporary folder 0-ImportThesePhotos
If all your imported photos in folder 0-ImportThesePhotos will go in the same destination folder, select them all. If not, then select one subset of them at a time and repeat the following steps until finished:
- Select a subset of photos
- Move your selected photos to a folder
- Go to Folders panel
- If the folder you want exists, right-click on it and choose Move Selected Photos to this Folder
- If the folder you want does not exist, create it then move the select photos to it
- Optional: Create a Collection or Smart Collection with the same name as the folder (see clever shortcut in Details section below)
Details
Import photos to a temporary folder 0-ImportThesePhotos per Installment 2 of this series. Next, use the Folders panel (left side of Lightroom’s Library module) to manage your on-disk folders. This is more efficient than using a folder browser (e.g. Windows Explorer or Mac’s file browser) to organize your folders.
Selecting a Subset of your imported Photos
In the folders panel click on your temporary folder, e.g. 0-ImportThesePhotos. You’ll see all the photos you just imported. Select some photos to put into a folder (or select them all if they’re all going into the same folder). To select all the photos from a first photo (e.g., photo_01) to a final photo (e.g., photo_50) and all the photos in between:
- Click on the first photo (photo_01)
- Scroll to the last photo (photo_50)
- Shift-Click on the last photo. All photos from 01-50 will be selected
- To skip over photos or choose photos here and there, or to un-select one, use Ctrl-click (Cmd-click on Mac) on each photo
- Your Lightroom panel should like similar to this. All the highlighted photos will be moved into the same long-term destination folder (the gray one was un-selected with Ctrl-click (Cmd-click on Mac) as described:

Moving your selected Photos to a Folder
My selected photos are from the Columbia River Highway in Oregon. I don’t yet have an Oregon folder on disk. As I shared in Part 1 On-Disk Organization, my top-level folders are Locations, Nature, People, Events, Other Subjects, Personal Projects, 0-Personal&Family. So to organize my Columbia River, Oregon photos I do the following:
- Click on Folders to reveal the Folders panel
- Click on Locations to show the Locations sub-folders
- Right-click on Locations > America-USA
- Choose Create Folder Inside ”America-USA”
- Name the folder Oregon
- Right-click on Locations > America-USA > Oregon
- Choose Create Folder Inside “Oregon”
- Name the folder ColumbiaRiverHighway

Note that we do not include spaces in the file name. That is because of a Lightroom limitation in Smart Collections (more details in next installment). I could stop here but because this is a location I’ll almost certainly visit again I’ll go down another level:
- Right-click on the folder ColumbiaRiverHighway and choose Create Folder Inside ‘ColumbiaRiverHighway’
- Name the folder 2009ColumbiaRiverHighway
- Check the box Include Selected Photos to move the selected photos to this folder
- Click on the Create button and watch it go!
- Creating a Smart Collection with the Same Name as your new Folder
- Optional but recommended. Here’s a trick to make doing that easier:
- Copy the folder name:
- Right-click on the folder 2009ColumbiaRiverHighway and choose Rename
- Right-click on the highlighted folder name 2009ColumbiaRiverHighway then choose Copy,
- Now hit Esc to cancel – the folder name 2009ColumbiaRiverHighway is now stored in memory
Here is what your dialogue box should look like when creating a Smart Collection that will automatically pull into itself all the photos in the folder you will name the Smart Collection after:

Create a Smart Collection (you can click on the ‘+’ sign by the Collections panel name and choose Create Smart Collection)
Name the Smart Collection with the folder name 2009ColumbiaRiverHighway by doing Paste into the Smart Collection dialogue box’s Name field.
- In the Set droplist, choose a Collection Set where the Smart Collection will reside or just leave it at the default value – None.
- Leave the Match droplist at its default – All. In the box below the Match droplist you’ll see a droplist that says Rating:
- Change that first droplist value from Rating to Filename
- Select Starts With in the 2nd droplist then you’ll see a 3rd droplist
- Paste the folder name 2009ColumbiaRiverHighway into the 3rd droplist and click the Create button.
Your photos from 2009ColumbiaRiverHighway should all show up automatically in your Smart Collection. If they don’t, then change the 2nd droplist to read Ends With (Smart Collections can be temperamental). Make sure you have no leading or trailing or embedded spaces or other characters in the Smart Collection name.
Moving the next set of your imported Photos – and the next….
The next subset of photos in my temporary folder 0-ImportThesePhotos is still in Oregon, but consists of photos captured while travelling south along the coast on Highway 101. To move these to the correct folder I did the following:
- Return to the Folders panel
- Right-click on the folder Locations > America-USA > Oregon
- Choose Create Folder Inside “Oregon”
- Name it Highway101Oregon (I specify Oregon because Highway 101 also goes through California and Washington – I take pictures on that highway in all these states)
- Right-click on Highway101Oregon and choose Create Folder Inside “Highway101Oregon”
- Name the new folder 2009Highway101Oregon
- Optional but recommended: Create a corresponding Smart Collection as described above. Again, more details about Collections in the next installment.
Robert Ash heads a global team at a leading technology company. He has 15 years of experience with large-scale data environments and has worked with some of the largest data warehouses in the world. All statements and opinions are the author’s own, not those of any company or other party. This approach is the author’s personal approach to photo organization. The material in his articles is not guaranteed or warranted to work for any purpose or in any environment besides the author’s. The author is not an Adobe employee.
Fashion and Glamour Photography Seminar Sept 12
Fashion and Glamour Photography Seminar, Sept 12, 2009
Instructor: David Saffir
Location: Santa Clarita Valley Center for Photography, 28368 Constellation Road,
Santa Clarita, CA 91355
We will have two professional models and a pro makeup artist on hand.

Fashion and Glamour Seminar
Agenda:
Intermediate-level class intended for advanced amateurs, aspiring professionals, and working pros.
One-day intensive, includes live shoot and Photoshop classroom work
Two models, professional makeup artist
First Segment: (9-12:00): live shoot, preceded by discussion of pre-shoot prep, choosing a “look”, hair/makeup considerations (mostly logistics, such as stylists), venue, lighting, props.
Second Segment ( approx 1-2:30): continue live shoot, variations on style such as high vs low key, style changes, etc.
Third Segment: (3-5pm)
- Importing images
- Basic editing in Camera RAW (demo of Phase One software)
- Macro-to-micro editing in Photoshop
- Special effects and problem solving
- Finishing up
- Client presentation
- Basic printing tutorial
- Making test prints (live)
Fee: $195, plus small ticketing fee. Class size limited.
To complete your reservation, use this link to visit Evenbrite ticketing.
Thanks, and see you there!












